Kim Howard  00:06

Welcome to the Let’s Talk EMDR podcast brought to you by the EMDR International Association or EMDRIA. I’m your host Kim Howard. In this episode we are talking with EMDR certified therapists and consulted Marisol Erlacher about trauma work with BIPOC women and how EMDR therapy can help. Let’s get started. Today we’re speaking with EMDR, certified therapist and consultant Marisol Erlacher to discuss trauma work among BIPOC women and how EMDR therapy can help. Thank you, Marisol, for being here today. We are so happy that you said yes.

 

Marisol Erlacher  00:37

Yeah, I’m glad to be here.

 

Kim Howard  00:38

Marisol, can you tell us about your path to becoming an EMDR therapist?

 

Marisol Erlacher  00:43

So I actually my first clinical job out of grad school was working at the local rape crisis center, which is me now currently the Blue Bench, and what was formerly the rape assistance awareness program here in Denver [Colorado]. And when I started, I think I knew that I wanted to be a trauma therapist. And I think it was pretty clear that that was my path and felt like it was the a good training ground in order to do that. And my one of my clinical supervisors at the rape crisis center was had become, I think she was EMDR certified in the process of becoming a consultant and had recommended that we all become EMDR trained. And so that was really the opening. I think, for me, it felt very important to feel as though I could provide something for my clients that would, that would bring them some resolution to their trauma. And so it felt like a good fit. And so I was trained in 2004. And this was back in the day when you didn’t have to do level one and level two concurrently. So I was level one trained, and, you know, gathered all my money to do that at the time. And then I waited about, I think, five years before I became able to trade. And so yeah, that was pretty much my path. And I was very committed to consultation early on, because I think I am the oldest daughter in a Latinx family. And so I’m very much a rule follower. I’ve tried to add a perfectionist, all the things that I’ve worked out in my own therapy. But I think, you know, I think true to many people’s experience, I felt very committed to fidelity of the model. And you know, the protocol, and so felt really worried about that, that I wouldn’t do it right. So I joined a consultation group immediately, and then continued consultation with the supervisor who had encouraged me to become trained, and did that until I became a consultant so long, it was a long path, for me.

 

Kim Howard  02:47

That’s a good story. And I like how you talk about the consultation part, I think that it’s one thing to go through a training. And I’m not suggesting that it’s easy to do that, you know, but it’s one thing to go through that and read the materials, and then go through the training. But it’s another thing to discuss among your peers, how you can implement that therapy into your practice. Or if you’re having a case issue that you’re just stumped with, and how you press forward into that network that you develop with those consultation groups, or by joining an organization like EMDRIA is really, really crucial, quite frankly, to not perfecting, but getting better at what you’re doing professionally. Because you know, all those minds are so much greater than just one. And so please, if you’re a member of our group, or other organizations, or if you’re not a member yet, please, if you’re a therapist, consider joining these groups because they really do help your your career, which profession and also really, which ultimately just helps your client or your patients, which is really your goal, right as a therapist is to help people who come to you. So thanks for reminding us of that. I appreciate that, Marisol. What’s your favorite part of working with EMDR therapy?

 

Marisol Erlacher  03:57

Oh, man, that’s such an interesting question. Because, you know, I’m coming to the end of my clinical career, and I’ve been doing a lot of reflection about what my practices look like, from beginning to end. I’ll probably do a lot more in the coming coming here. But I think the thing that I really appreciate about it, and I think I’ve been able to see my own development through my, the pathway of being an EMDR therapist, if that makes any sense. I think early on, I was really rigid. I don’t think I think I felt a lot of anxiety and fear about, again, the use and the fidelity and and I think as I grew, I think specifically when I became a consultant and training, I really started to expand my capacity, my ability and like my understanding of the AIP model. And so I think I really, I think similar to like most things in my life and similar to like my own clinical practice, I think what I enjoyed about it, it’s just been able to grow within the context of, you know, the the model, and seeing how different iterations of my development have really changed and grown and expanded. And so I think that’s my favorite part personally. I think, of course, you know, as most EMDR therapists will say, I think it’s always the best part is seeing your clients get better, or clients coming back and saying, providing the feedback that they actually have resolution or that they’ve, they’ve noticed a change. And, and I know I’ve had people come to me, I was just thinking about this. I had this woman that I knew peripherally as an acquaintance. And she said, you know, and she was I think she was a doula. And she said, You know, one of my, one of my clients said that she did EMDR therapy with you to change your life. And I was wondering if you would do it with me, and I was like, Oh, I can’t do that. Because it’s still too close, in terms of the relationship, but, and I don’t know who that person was. She never disclosed who that person was. And so I think those stories, and when you get that feedback is really impactful. But I think overall, for me, the clinical journey has always been primarily about pushing myself to grow as a clinician and as just a human being in this world. So I think just thinking about how I’ve grown through as an EMDR therapist, has been, I think, one of my favorite parts.

 

Kim Howard  06:25

That’s a good answer. Thank you. So we’re here today to talk about work trauma with BIOC women. So can you tell us what that looks like?

 

Marisol Erlacher  06:34

Sure, I think Well, I’ll tell I’ll give you a little bit of history. So another thing you should know about, maybe Kim knows me personally. But one thing that you don’t know about me, because you haven’t talked to me like this, is that I always have to give context; context is always important to me. And so I’ll try to be brief. But I’ll give you a little bit of a history in terms of how I came to this work. So I into I think it was probably around 2020, it must have been 2021/22…. So 2021, is when I decided to really start to make the transition out of clinical work and to do more training and consulting. not specific to psychotherapy, but just kind of in a different realm. And part of that was, during COVID, a lot of friends who were CEOs and executive directors reached out to me, because their staff was struggling with the transition to work, you know, to work from home, just the overall trauma of the pandemic, and were bringing just a lot of anxiety and distress to the workplace. And so they asked me if I would come and do some trainings just to help and build some capacity among staff, which I did. And just realized that while this is really something that people are desirous of just basic knowledge around their understanding of themselves in their own, like, you know, their their brains and their physiology and how all, you know, stress and trauma impacts all of that. So I started to do some of that. And within that I was, as I made the transition, I started to really think about what did I want. What are things that I really wanted to speak about or speak to in a more corporate organizational setting. So I was sitting with, I have a group of friends, they’re called the Fly Ladies. So shout out to my Fly Ladies, their group of friends that, you know, it’s it’s kind of an interesting group, because we’re very, like, I would say, like, pretty highly successful. Women, a lot of lots of women of color in that group, and very supportive of each other. And we were having a conversation, we’re at someone, someone in the group had  been a 40 under 40 in our community. And so we’re doing a little celebration for her and we’re having a conversation. And I can’t remember what what started the conversation, but one of the women in the group said, you know, you can’t get to our level of success without experiencing some trauma in the workplace. You know, and it resonated with everyone around the room. And so we all started talking about different experiences. And that was really like the, the seed that was planted for me in that moment to really think about, like, what does that look like? And I’ve studied it in a lot of different contexts just based on the stuff that I have done both like academically and professionally. But I really tried to hone in on it and figure out like, what does workplace trauma look like for BIPOC women? What is that experience like? And that was that was the impetus and I think what what I know to be true, based on my own experience is that there are several layers that make it the experience of a BIPOC woman different in the workplace. One of my friends, Simone Ross, she is the CEO of the Colorado women’s Chamber of Commerce here. And she did she did a TED Talk and she talked about how outcomes for Black women are better when they work from home because they don’t have to deal with the ongoing microaggressions that happen. They don’t feel like they have to do code switching. They, they feel more comfortable, and they actually are able to be more successful when they’re not in the workplace. And so there are lots of layers that are that impact women. I think, primarily, obviously, there’s a systemic racism that you, you have to deal with. Just have been in the workplace, that’s just, that’s just true. And, and then having to face I think, also gender discrimination, and then having to, to this internalized sense of having to do more than your white counterparts, because you are not seen as competent, or as effective or as beautiful, or whatever it is, what, whatever those things are, the measures of of success are not assigned to you automatically. So there’s a level of pressure to have to do more and have to be more. And then I think also having to mitigate a lot of the, again, microaggressions and racism that happens in the workplace, in order to not be seen as aggressive, or uncooperative, or being other even more within the workplace. So lots of different layers. I think for many women of color, you are more often than not, as you get higher and higher in any profession that you are, you’re the only one typically in the room. And that comes with a layer of responsibility, and a level of stress that is just different. And so, I think what is really important is to just understand how nuanced and how challenging the workplace can be for BIPOC women, and that it’s just not that straightforward, that there are lots of the layers for I think, if you know, for clinicians to look for and to think about. And then I think also for BIPOC women, I know, as I’ve spoken on this issue, not only my podcasts, but just in different trainings, I think there are some women who are like, I’ve had women who have been, you know, are CEOs, and they’re like, I’ve never even thought about this. I just thought that this is just part of my world, it’s just, you know, I never didn’t think about how all of those things are true, and how it impacted me. And so I think it’s really important, I think, for the clinician to be aware of in terms of how they’re working with women within this context. And then also for to know that some women think we have some, maybe some beliefs that BIPOC women are understanding all of the the impacts of their environment, when sometimes they need some help and understanding of the ways that these things can be traumatic.

 

Kim Howard  13:01

That’s a good answer. Thank you for sharing that. And I’ve mentioned this before on the podcast, I just don’t remember which episode it was. But you may know, I spent a lot of my years working with lawyers. And I spent about four or five years working with the association for minority lawyers. And when I was talking to the CEO, he mentioned to me a case study, you probably read about or heard about things like this, where they do blind case studies in any kind of situations, academic related, usually. And so this is a law school study that they did, and they had papers that were submitted. And the names on the papers were generic names, Bob Smith, Marianne Powell, and the professors would grade the papers, and they’d all get great grades. And then they’d send the same papers in, unedited, with more ethnic sounding names. And all of a sudden, their grades dropped to C’s and D’s. So there is this unconscious bias. And we have talked about this on the podcast before, as perception that women are not a smartest men, or especially women of color may not be as smart as the white people in the room. And so there’s, they’re coming from a from a lens of that they’re having to deal with that. And then on top of that, they’re having to do all their work. And so they have to work twice as hard sometimes, you know, triple as hard to show that they’re really good at what they do. And then for my Black women friends out there, you know, there’s this perception that because a Black woman speaks up or says something or is upset about something that she has must be an angry Black woman. And that’s, you know, being upset about something or speaking up for yourself is not characterized. That’s not correct. That’s just simply speaking up for yourself as a person and pushing back on something. And just because somebody disagrees with you, doesn’t mean they’re angry. It just means they disagree with you. And so there’s that perception as well, when they’re in a workplace situation that they have to think about that the rest of us weren’t black women. We don’t have to think about that. And so I’m glad that you’re working with women to help them with this. So thank you for doing all of that.

 

Marisol Erlacher  15:01

Yeah, it’s I mean, I think it’s significant in terms of as you say, I think there’s an emotional load that we carry that is so just embedded into our day to day that has an impact. I just saw this statistic I was trying to pull this up as you’re, you’re talking. And I’ll have to look to see where this actually comes from. But they say that Black women experience significant burnout due to stress from the workplace. And it ages Black women at an accelerated rate at least 7.5 years.

 

Kim Howard  15:34

Wow.

 

Marisol Erlacher  15:35

So there’s a significant impact to help in terms of how we internalize the stress of the workplace. I remember I mean, I have so many stories, I can tell you could go on and on about stories about my own life. But I know that even at a young age, I recognize that there was a certain way of being that was appropriate in different settings. And I’m sure that children go through this and but I knew that it was like, it had to do with how white people acted in certain spaces, that that was always deemed as acceptable. And so I took note of that, like, Oh, you’re supposed to do this, or you have to act this way, or you have to. And so I think that level of like code switching and have to have to adapt. And you know, again, I think generationally, it’s probably different, a little bit different now. But I think, you know, I think with the way that we have to work within systems that weren’t built for us, and are built to dehumanize us into, again, other-us, it’s really difficult to not internalize that and not have to figure out how to navigate a system that that system, and that that would cause different levels of stress and have a greater impact. If you send me that link, when you find that study, I will put it in the podcast description so people can go check it out.

 

Kim Howard  17:00

Yeah. So Marisol, what are the complexities or challenges with the treatment of women who have experienced work trauma?

 

Marisol Erlacher  17:07

I think first and foremost, I think it’s recognition. I think it’s just something that we don’t really talk about, I think we think about maybe more acute situations where we, we, we believe, like, Oh, this is a really difficult experience. And so now it’s reached the level of needing attention. This is another link I can give you, I did a Capsule Podcast, called Work Trauma Is Real. And I, you know, was talking to different women of color around their experiences. And here locally, we had a situation at one of our local news channels where three Latinas were terminated or left their positions at one time. And so there was a lot of coverage around that. And I think for that, you know, and I think the coverage was really specific to the discrimination and racism that they faced in the workplace. And I think when someone experiences that, then people think, oh, it’s risen to the level traumas. And now I have to address it. Because look at how A. public it is and B. how I’ve been impacted in terms of employment. But what we don’t think about are the insidious ways that those traumas and that stress impacts us over time. So I think that is the thing that is really important is just developing the awareness around it, that it’s not just doesn’t have to rise to the level of, oh my gosh, it’s like, you know, now, now, it’s traumatic, like, all of these things have an impact, ongoing, and it’s really important to grow awareness around that. And then I think it’s really important to just to name it, to say like, this is hard for you. And this is why it’s hard. Because I think that normalization is really important. Like I said, I’ve done trainings where women are women of color, and be like, I didn’t even I’ve never even thought about this, because there’s no way that there’s no space, you know, to think about that, I think more companies, you know, since the murder of George Floyd, since 2020, have companies started, you know, doing more DEI work more affinity groups, so then you had more places and spaces to be able to talk about some of these things, but the work of DEI is under threat. And more and more companies and organizations are starting to abandon that work. And so there’ll be more of a diminishment of space to be able to really talk about that. So I think, really creating some normalization around that and making sure that there’s an acceptance of what has happened, and how that could have an impact. So I think those are primarily the most important things. And I think also with that awareness, I think it really starts to be able to target some of the things that are important to target in terms of if we’re thinking about EMDR therapy, to really target some of those primary issues. I have worked with clients where they talk about those early childhood experiences. And some of those are like very impactful in terms of identity. You know, I always talk about I’ve talked about this experience over and over again. But one of my very first childhood memories was being in kindergarten. And I remember my kindergarten teacher’s name was Mrs. French. And I had moved from a fully bilingual preschool and integrated into a regular classroom. And so when she was doing roll call the first day, she said, she said my name and she said my name, I don’t know how to pronounce your name, how do you pronounce her name? And I said, Oh, my name is Marisol. And she said, Oh, well, I don’t know how to say that. So I’m just gonna call you Maris. And I remember feeling like, like, I’ve never had never felt that feeling of, okay, well, I don’t know how to stand up for myself in this moment, because my parents didn’t really prepare me, like, make sure people call you by your name. And I remember feeling the sense of powerlessness. And I think there’s so many of those experiences early on, that we don’t even recognize play into our sense of identity, and who we are, and how that helps that will. You know, those settings, like early educational settings are the things that help us navigate what who we are in the workplace, how we show up, you know, how we understand ourselves. And so I think it’s important to really be able to target and identify how those early experiences can impact the way that we feel about ourselves. And then how that carries on over the course of time in terms of education and continued, you know, our continued professional life?

 

Kim Howard  21:31

That’s a good story. I mean, I’m sorry, that happened to you, but you’re also five, or maybe six, you shouldn’t have to think about that, or worry about that. You know, gosh, you know, that’s so young to have that happen. I’m sorry that she couldn’t figure out how to pronounce your name, but shame on her. So what successes have you seen using EMDR therapy for this population?

 

Marisol Erlacher  21:52

I think primarily, again, I think have been able to normalize the experience being able to help people identify what trauma is, and to be able to have a different experience of themselves. I think that’s been my biggest success, I think is just that contextualization and normalization of the experience, and to be able to help them process through that. And to be able to make those links between how they, their sense of self or their experiences are impacting them day to day. And I think being able to remove the shame from that is always so powerful. I know I’ve had women come to me and say, like I’ve had, you know, just the coming into a position of leadership and feeling really diminished, either, you know, by coworkers, colleagues, board, different boards, board members, and feeling really diminished in their role because of who they are, and have feeling like they have to prove themselves and feeling a lot of shame that they feel badly about having to go to work like, well, I should, like, there’s a sense of I should feel gratitude, because I’m in this position, and I have a responsibility to do my best. And I think being able to remove the shame of like, no, if we experienced trauma. And with ongoing, we can recognize that and call it what it is. And it’s not about you, it’s about the system that’s set up so that you don’t succeed. So I think that has been the most important thing for me in terms of this work.

 

Kim Howard  23:32

Thank you, Marisol. So are there any message you would like to break about working with EMDR therapy and BIPOC women?

 

Marisol Erlacher  23:39

Great question this I want to break. I think that we’re a monolith. You know, I even have struggled, you know, when we talk about women of color, and we talk about backpack women. And when I use those terms, I struggle because there’s so many nuances within that whole grouping of people. And I think it’s really easy. Because we all need to do it, we all need to like put ourselves in boxes in order to understand and be able to respond in ways that are useful. But I think, you know, the, this idea that we’re all the same or have similar experiences isn’t true. I think, you know, similar to like, how I talked about women who have said, I didn’t even know that that was true. In my experience. There are some women of color who probably would argue with me, you know, who I’d say would want to counter anything that I’m saying about trauma in the workplace. So I think that we’re we all have varied opinions. We are not a monolith. We all come. You know, I think we come to therapy with a very unique lens, based on lots of different intersections of our identities. So I think that that’s a really important myth to break it.

 

Kim Howard  24:57

Thank you. How can employers create a more welcoming safe, healthier workplaces, for women, especially BIPCOC women?

 

Marisol Erlacher  25:04

I think there’s so many different ways to do that. I think primarily, it’s acknowledging that there’s a possibility that the position of a woman of color and leadership can feel very lonely. And I think acknowledging that I think providing opportunities for mentorship, if that’s possible, in terms of like expanding that person’s ability to get support, either within the organization or outside of the organization, things specifically for many women of color, again, because we’re the only ones in the room, there are a lot of challenges that come up. And without that support, it can continue to break down the ability to be able to continue to thrive in that position. I think openly talking about issues of race within the workplace, I think it’s something that we tend to avoid, but it’s actually highly correlated with the comfort of people of color in the workplace. So the more we can demystify, talk about it, make it very open, it really allows for people to feel more comfortable in their positions. So I think very clear acknowledgement, that it’s, it’s always there. And I think, being able to continue trainings around either, what it means to be like to help staff understand what it means for people of color to be in leadership. And to be the only ones I just recently did is you’re talking about working with lawyers, I recently did a keynote for a group of intellectual property lawyers and engineers. And they had done a session specific will they do a retreat for BIPOC staff every other year, and they did a session with all of leadership leadership in the company. And then they were doing like a panel discussion about, like some of the issues that the bipod staff were having, and you know, how they could address it. And there was only one person of color on leadership. And so he was speaking to that experience. And, you know, like, what it meant for him to continue to, like, do the work of providing this retreat, and like supporting the staff of color, and what that means. And I think it’s really important to acknowledge, like, how difficult that work is, and to be able to provide the support and to continue to acknowledge what that means. And then understand that the complexities that come with that, as you were saying, I think, the like, tropes that come, you know, like the angry Black woman trope, the different tropes that come with, for women of color, I know for myself, there are different tropes that come with being Latina. And, you know, people will say, have said things that are very dismissive. And I think it’s acknowledging that those things happen. And that we need more training around either unconscious bias, understanding how to support women of color in the workplace. Also, learning how those traumas impact not just the individual, but the organization is.

 

Kim Howard  28:09

That’s good. One thing, I want to piggyback on that you talked about mentorship, but also sponsorship, you know, because sometimes there are meetings where women are women of color, or people of color are not in those meetings, but still need somebody in the room sort of being their, their sponsor, or their cheerleader or their, their person to acknowledge that that person can take on a new role, or that they did a great job on something that just happened or that they’re doing good work. And so we as colleagues need to recognize that we have to step up. And that, especially if you’re in a management role, if you’re managing staff, or if you’re on the leadership team, that’s part of your part of your job, too, is to make sure that you you speak up in meetings, and just so everybody knows all the listeners out there in case you’ve never worked with lawyers, we can talk about that for a minute. The majority of people in the legal profession are men, and the majority of their race and their ethnicity is white. And so it’s a very, very small percentage of, of women in the legal profession and even smaller people of color. So, yeah, that’s where that comes from. That’s why that guy was the only person of color on that leadership team because it’s, it’s not common, unfortunately. And yes, I know, it’s 2024. And you would think that it would be easier and more prolific, but it’s simply not and so not not because people don’t want to go to law school, but you know, you have to get people interested in that kind of thing. Maybe high school level, maybe college and a lot of times once women get into the legal profession, it’s like a lot of other professions. You know, you’re working 80-90 hours a week, who wants to do that with a family, you know? You can move on to the next phase of your life and you want to raise a family and you can’t you can’t do that. So a lot of women leave unfortunately, because it it’s just a ridiculous amount of hours to ask anybody to work. Much less, you know, people trying to raise kids. So firstly, billable hours. Yeah, that’s all it matters every 15 minute increments or six [minutes], I guess in some places, I guess.

 

Marisol Erlacher  30:09

But yeah, that’s statistically I mean, and I can probably find this and link to it, but because they don’t have them in front of me, statistically the number of women, I think it’s like, if you look at, in different industries, like as you get into different roles, like if you go to managerial to like mid level management, or like, you know, you’re like a supervisor, mid level management, then like your, you know, C-suite, whatever that progression is, how, you know, for people of color, like diminishes, but for women of color, I think it’s like less than 1% of women in leadership are in C-suite. And that’s not for, you know, it’s not correlated to population. I think sometimes people are like, well, there aren’t enough for, it’s really just about, like you said, it’s about ally ship, people giving a hand because we know that more often than not, I mean, a high percentage of the time, it’s not necessarily about competency. It’s about the support we need. On the other side, it’s about the network. So you know, yeah, a lot of times for allyship is super important, and Ally ship in the right way. I think that sometimes we tend to throw ourselves into being allies and think that we’re being supportive, but we’re not. So I think I just recently did a training on how to be an ally. And I think it’s really important to also educate ourselves on that. And what’s great is that we have the internet. So again, most of that is true. Like back in the day, when all I had was Encyclopedia Britannica.

 

Kim Howard  31:42

We had to Google using the card catalog and in the library was just not not not easy. Let me tell you, as a previous podcast guest, said, Roshni Chobra, you don’t have to, you don’t have to throw a parade, to be an ally, for the LGBTQ plus community, you know that you’ve that you don’t have to start there. Let’s start smaller. And so the same thing with supporting women in the workplace or especially BIPOC women, you don’t have to, like, do a TED talk, you can just start small, be a sponsor or be a mentor, you know, promote, promote from within if you can hire from without and, and look at people’s skill sets and really propel them forward. You know. So.

 

Marisol Erlacher  32:21

I think that there’s sometimes I think, you know, particularly I think, when there are women of color in leadership, I think sometimes there are other and I’ll say this specifically, because I think this is true, there are other women that will say will diminish the struggle, because they’re already in that position, like, will they, you know, what do they have to complain about? So I think it’s really important to understand that that can come up to.

 

Kim Howard  32:45

Marisol, do you have a favorite free EMDR related resource you would suggest either for the public or other EMDR therapists?

 

Marisol Erlacher  32:52

That’s a great question. Well, you know, I mean, I’m a sucker for the EMDRIA website.

 

Kim Howard  32:58

You should be.

 

Marisol Erlacher  33:02

I really am. There’s great information there. I’m not gonna lie. I wish I could say that. It was because I have some kind of vested interest in it. But it really isn’t. I just always have since the beginning, even you know, and we’re refining our resources. And we’re, I think it just getting better and better. But it’s really my go to place. And again, this is not, I’m not trying to, it just is I think it’s always I feel like it’s good consolidation of resources. It’s pointed me in the direction of different trainers that I probably wouldn’t have been, I wouldn’t have known before. So I really do appreciate the EMDRIA website for that. And I probably should expand my sites.

 

Kim Howard  33:47

That’s why be all end all. That’s it. Nobody else. Nobody else knows anything about us. No one else. Well, this question may be moot based on what you told me the beginning of the interview, but I’m gonna ask it anyway, if you weren’t an EMDR therapist, what would you be?

 

Marisol Erlacher  34:02

Gosh, you know, it’s so funny, because I think it was people resonate with this, I’m sure. I’m hoping, when I you know, have been burned out so many times in the course of my clinical career. I think it’s like, just endemic of being a trauma therapist is like you get to this place where you’re like, was there any other profession that I can? What else can I do with my time I used to make a list. I used to joke with my husband and be like, what are some other things that I’m really good at that I could do? And so we would joke about my list of professions. And I’ve thought about that, as I continue on in this next part of my journey as a trainer, but I don’t know it seems kind of boring to say, You know what I will say, which is funny, and you’ll appreciate this as you are a podcast host. And when I started my podcast, everyone would comment, not necessarily on the content but on my voice. So they would be like, you could be in radio. Yeah. Voice and I was like, I missed my calling.

 

Kim Howard  34:59

You have a really good soothing kind of voice. And it’s I mean, I think you’re lovely anyway you know to look at so but you have a face for radio or something that’s the joke a lot of the people on radio so you know, but that’s not your case. But yeah, you would be Yeah, you’d be great.

 

Marisol Erlacher  35:17

Yeah, yea.

 

Kim Howard  35:18

Voiceovers or reading the news. And there certain people you’re like, just read the dictionary to me. I’m okay. Just go ahead. You know?

 

Marisol Erlacher  35:25

I could, I could probably do like a calm app, I could do….

 

Kim Howard  35:29

That would be fun.

 

Marisol Erlacher  35:32

I missed my calling my people. No one recruited me for radio. I don’t know.

 

Kim Howard  35:40

Marisol, is there anything else you’d like to add?

 

Marisol Erlacher  35:42

No. I thank you so much for having me on here. I’m really excited. I think as I come to the end of night, I don’t know I keep talking about this. But I’m getting close to the end of my term as a board member with EMDRIA and the end of my clinical practice, it’s, you know, this will be kind of a nice thing to come back to you to think about. This is getting close. Only a year and a half everyone.

 

Kim Howard  36:05

That’s a good way to end the podcast. Thanks.

 

Marisol Erlacher  36:08

You’re welcome. Thank you.

 

Kim Howard  36:09

This has been the Let’s Talk EMDR podcast with our guest Marisol Erlacher. Visit www.emdria.org for more information about EMDR therapy for to use our Find an EMDR Therapist Directory with more than 16,000 therapists available. Like what you hear? Make sure you subscribe to this free podcast wherever you listen. Thanks for being here today.