Kim Howard 00:04
Welcome to the Let’s Talk EMDR podcast brought to you by the EMDR International Association or EMDRIA. I am your host Kim Howard. In this episode we are talking with EMDR certified therapist Dr. Crystal Hollenbeck about EMDR and sex therapy. Crystal is located in Orlando, Florida. Let’s get started. Today we are speaking with EMDR certified therapist Dr. Crystal Hollenbeck about EMDR therapy with sex therapy for sexual dysfunction and disorders and couples therapy. Thank you, crystal for being here today. We are so happy that you said yes.

Crystal Hollenbeck 00:39
Oh, I’m so excited to talk to you, Kim, today. This is such a great podcast. And I’m just excited to be a part of it.

Kim Howard 00:46
That’s great. Thank you. So tell us a little bit about your journey to becoming an EMDR therapist.

Crystal Hollenbeck 00:51
So I am actually a licensed mental health counselor, and I’m a certified life coach. And back when I was getting my master’s degree, many years ago, I had a college bestie. And we sat beside each other in all our coursework, and she was going to do EMDR therapy, and she’s like, ‘Come take this training with me.’ And I’m like, ‘No, it sounds a little weird. I’m not into the weird stuff.’ And she’s like, you know, come on, come and try it, you know, whatever. So I went, and I was one of the volunteers that they were doing in the training, you know, and I thought, I’ve done my work, I’m good. Oh, I wasn’t. So the EMDR. Once I realized what it was, it’s bilateral brain stimulation. And when I was in the training, it really brought up some things for me that I had not completely processed myself. So that of course, I thought EMDR therapy as an individual after that training. And the thing I love about it is my theoretical orientation is cognitive behavioral therapy. And the reason I chose that is because I believe it lines up the best with us as a human being on how we function. So when I learned about EMDR, being bilateral brain stimulation, well, like that is such a perfect fit. So I use EMDR, with CBT to help my clients and it works so well, because it’s allowing you to process naturally what you’re supposed to do anyway, then, you know, Francine Shapiro, she said she would have renamed it reprocessing therapy instead of EMDR. But of course, it’s out there EMDR. But it really does process. That’s the beautiful thing about it. So that was my journey to doing it. If it wouldn’t have been for my college bestie I probably would never be able to help my clients the way I do.

Kim Howard 02:35
Well, that’s, that’s great news. I’m glad that she insisted that you go to partake, and you’re not the first guests that we’ve had on this podcast to say that, you know, they were a little skeptical. And I can certainly understand why it sounds almost too good to be true. It’s a shorter therapy process, processing the trauma and, and helping file those memories back the way they need to be filed. And so when you when you think about that, from an outsider standpoint, you’re so you’re like, oh, no, that can’t be that cannot happen that way. That’s not real. But clearly, it’s real, if it’s helping if it’s helped more than, you know, 7 million people worldwide. So apparently, it’s a therapy that works very well. So what is your favorite part of working with EMDR and sex therapy?

Crystal Hollenbeck 03:17
So I am a certified sex addiction therapist, and I’m an a sex certified sex therapist. So I have the privilege to help clients move from unhealthy to healthy sexuality. EMDR has been so effective with helping from everything from urges with sex addiction issues, to erectile dysfunction, performance, anxiety, Maginnis miss, of course, healing from sexual abuse, the trauma associated with it. Often times there’s a lot of trauma that happens with couples related to sexuality, something can happen while they’re having a sexual experience that can be very traumatizing and cause a lot of anxiety. There can be unhealed wounds around sexuality from childhood that can impact a couple today with sex therapy. And so EMDR is just so effective in so many different ways. Not only do we address the negative aspects related to sexuality, but we don’t often talk enough about the future templates that we use. And oftentimes I will use the future templates in EMDR. And that gets you to envision the positive. What could it look like if you were in that situation again, what might be able to be different so it helps couples when they have very little hope. Or maybe this issue has been going on for a very long time and they don’t trust that it can really be different. Also going to the future template with EMDR really helps them envision it helps them to see how it can be different. So I’ve just found it to be really helpful in so many different ways.

Kim Howard 04:55
That’s great. That’s great news. And this question was not on our interview question list. Can you talk a little bit about…is this a hard sell for people? I mean, you’re talking about a relationship between two people. And it’s such an intimate issue, right sex, having sex with your partner. And especially if you’ve got men coming into the room, you know, there’s this whole ego attached to how good of a lover they are and how they’re satisfying the partner that they’re with. And so I would imagine, it’s, it’s very difficult to get convinced people to come in as a couple and talk about such intimate details. How do you…how do you make them feel comfortable once they’ve gotten to you?

Crystal Hollenbeck 05:36
Well, you know, I think people feel more comfortable just because of my certifications, and education and training. Sometimes seeking out a professional alone makes them feel a little bit more comfortable. And then secondly, I really try to normalize that sexuality as a part of all of our being. And it is very natural to experience sexual issues, sexual problems, sexual anxiety throughout our lifespan. So when I really helped them to realize, you know, I always say I talk about sex, like, I’m ordering lunch, right? So it’s so common to me. You know, obviously, I always tell people, I know, it takes a lot of courage for you to come in and talk to me, it takes a lot of courage to come in and talk to a stranger about the most intimate details of your life. But I also offer hope, and I just remind them, they’re so brave, they’re so brave, to have a voice for that, and to say, I want to be healthier in this area. And so you’re right, we have to be very careful when our clients come into us around sexually related issues. If you’re not qualified, please refer them out to somebody who is more qualified work with someone who maybe as a certified sex therapist, and you can team up to help the client. But yeah, it takes a lot of courage to come in. And so I spend a lot of time just let them know, Hey, this is, you know, this is a part of who you are.

Kim Howard 07:01
That’s, that’s great. That’s good advice. It’s good advice for all of us to remember. So thank you. What successes have you seen using EMDR therapy with sex therapy?

Crystal Hollenbeck 07:10
Oh, so many. In fact, I know this might sound unrealistic to say, but in my experience, it’s true. I’ve never had anything but positive experiences using EMDR therapy. So whether it’s just getting that client to open up and be more vulnerable around sexuality, whether it is really helping them to heal from sexual abuse and trauma, I’ve it’s really been, again, effective with urges with sex addiction, there’s actually a protocol for that. performance anxiety has been really, I treat a lot of men for ED, which is erectile dysfunction. And it’s basically based in performance anxiety, and EMDR is really effective for treating anxiety. And so just premature ejaculation I’ve treated for; vaginismus; fears around… so things will happen. Like one of the clients I saw, he was very traumatized by seeing his child be born and he seeing his wife’s vagina in that way, and the whole trauma of birth and all that happened with it, he was really traumatized. And he could not reengage with her sexually. And they suffered for about a year until he realized, ‘I don’t know what’s going on. I just can’t engage with her.’ When they come in, came in, you know, his take their history, and I realized, oh, he was traumatized by the birth of his child. And it really impacted him sexually EMDR was fantastic tool was a fantastic tool to just help him work through that. Also, with CBT, being able to talk in a positive way about that birth experience, change those belief systems he was having. So yeah, I’ve had the privilege to just see at the so effective to help so many people.

Kim Howard 09:01
That’s awesome news. I mean, you know, if you’re in a healthy relationship, and something like that goes wrong, you don’t want to discontinue the relationship, right? You don’t want to break up the marriage or break up the relationship. And so it’s wonderful that there are solutions out there for people. I mean, I clearly not a man. But I can only imagine if you’re looking at this woman who has now birthed your child and your do look at her in a different way. She’s now not just your wife and your lover. She’s also the mother of your new child. And so I would suspect tha’s a little weird for some time and so in whether it stops the sexual relationship at all, or whether it impacts it makes it delayed a little bit. I would imagine there’s a huge transition with that. So I can see that certainly what happened.

Crystal Hollenbeck 09:49
Well, it’s so true, Kim and you know, there’s so many areas that people just don’t know what the issue is, and that’s why it’s so important to come into therapy to just explore because As he was like, Oh my gosh, I would have never thought that that is what the issue was right. So you know, you just don’t know sometimes when you’re traumatized, how things impact us differently. You know, another area I’ve seen a lot of success using EMDR is with betrayal, trauma. And so when someone is sexually betrayed by their partner, it impacts every part of their sexuality, it impacts every part of their person. And so a lot of times EMDR is so effective in treating that trauma, you know, the broken trust, the sexual betrayal, part of that is just so very difficult to heal from. And I found EMDR to just be so remarkably helpful with helping somebody heal from betrayal trauma as well.

Kim Howard 10:45
Good. That’s good news. Thank you. Are there any myths that you would like to bust about EMDR therapy and couples therapy?

Crystal Hollenbeck 10:51
So most couples come in, you know, and they want you to fix? You know, the other one? And

Kim Howard 10:59
We all want that, right?

Crystal Hollenbeck 11:00
Yeah, perfect.

Kim Howard 11:01
But my partner is not, so they need to be fixed.

Crystal Hollenbeck 11:04
And so when I’m identifying areas that could EMDR could maybe be helpful with one of the things I have to really let couples know is, even if I meet with your partner, and I see them for, let’s say, anger management, I’m certified in anger management, I use EMDR, to process anger. So let’s say I meet with them and do that, that doesn’t fix the problem. Right. So EMDR doesn’t fix the problems. It’s simply a modality to help you process maladaptive beliefs and heal from traumatic experiences. But you still have to be intentional to apply other skills and healing to your relationship by developing new relational habits. So probably the most important thing I say to couples is you have to be intentional. EMDR is going to allow you to heal, it’s going to allow you to look at things differently, process that information, but you still have to be intentional to apply the new skills, the new way of interacting with each other. So applying what you get from the EMDR therapy is what’s important. Course, we’re all like that, aren’t we can we just want to come in and we just want to like, you know, I had one client say, can you just zap me with those things? And you know, I want to be better? And I’m like, well….

Kim Howard 12:19
No, that’s shock therapy, we really don’t do that much anymore. It’s yeah, no we don’t want to do that.

Crystal Hollenbeck 12:26
You know, I would say another myth that I have to help couples with is they believe that we’re going to uncover something that they don’t know, right? This is something common that people will say, well, it’s EMDR gonna help me remember, you know, I think I was abused, or I think this happened. And I always say no, EMDR is not there. If you don’t remember it, we’re not digging up something you don’t remember, not only is that not helpful to you, it can be very dangerous, implanting some type of memories or discovering something that you have no memory of. So no, it’s not hypnosis. It’s not something that we dig up other things. It’s really like Francine Shapiro said, it’s about processing. So those are probably the two biggest myths. I think that I see.

Kim Howard 13:12
Yeah, that’s a good, thank you. Are there specific complexities or difficulties with using EMDR therapy for this population?

Crystal Hollenbeck 13:20
So in my experience, I would say now, if you are certified in EMDR therapy, which by the way, I don’t recommend anyone see a therapist who is not certified, or is in the certification process, don’t see somebody that says I took a weekend training, if they’re not if they’re not in the certification process, which is a two year process under supervision, or they’ve already been certified. Please don’t don’t see them for EMDR therapy, because I really believe if a therapist is following the eight phases, they’re doing a good history, they’re doing all of the steps. I don’t really think there are many difficulties or complexities with using EMDR therapy in sex therapy, because you’re doing a good assessment, you’re really targeting what is the most helpful with that client, your knowing that client a little bit more I always cringe when I have a client come to me and say, oh, yeah, they did. EMDR therapy with me. And my very first session, I want to go what? Yeah, no, no, no, no. EMDR is not just something we do at random, or it’s that click, yes, the process is quick. But you need to be with a therapist that walks you through and really understands what we’re targeting why we’re using it. So I think that’s the way to avoid the difficulties of the complexities. And, you know, EMDR I feel like gives me a way to offer hope to people. So I don’t see it as having difficulty or problems with it. I always see it as a way to give them hope.

Kim Howard 14:58
No, I think you’re right about the What you said about the history taking in the eight phases, and you know, you got to do your homework, I mean, you know, if you, if you hire anybody to do anything for you in terms of contracting, or any kind of work that you’re doing, you know, you expect that person to be educated, somehow, possibly certified, if they’re in professions that require that are licensed, you know, and you expect them to have that knowledge and you expect them to come in and ask a lot of questions about what you’re doing, and why you’re doing it and that kind of thing, so that they can find the solution for you, whatever that solution is. And so you should expect the same from your therapist, they should go in and they should understand who you are, before they begin any kind of work on you or with you. So thank you for reminding us.

Crystal Hollenbeck 15:44
Oh, yeah, you know, I think that we should be very transparent on our websites and our marketing. And I would not see any EMDR therapist if they’re not listed on EMDRIA site, because EMDRIA site is also going to let you know, whether they’re certified whether they’re in training to be certified, if they’re a consultant. So I definitely would recommend that you check that out, because people just don’t know.

Kim Howard 16:09
Yeah. And I will say Our Find an EMDR Therapist Directory is is open to the public. And there is a little caveat on that some people, some of our members choose not to be listed in the therapy directory. And some of that is sometimes if they’re in an agency setting, they have clients coming to them in a different way. They don’t necessarily need to seek outside clients in terms of getting new new people in the door. Or, quite frankly, if they’re booked and no longer accepting patients, sometimes I think it’s better just not to be listed so the people won’t reach out. So that there is a caveat with that. But if anybody has any doubt about somebody that they’re seeking, and they don’t see them on our Find an EMDR Therapist Directory, they can always email the staff and say, I’m looking into this therapist, can you tell me if they’re certified? Or if they’re a member of your organization, or both? So people can reach out that way? If they’re wondering, so…

Crystal Hollenbeck 17:03
They can even ask the therapist or ask the agency, right? Is this person you’re referring to me for EMDR therapy? Are they qualified? You know, one of the things I did is I looked at some. So whenever you have a license in Florida, I’m in Florida. And when you have somebody make, like a complaint against your license, they’ll have other experts kind of review the information. And I’ve had the privilege to be a part of that at times. And I have reviewed complaints around EMDR therapy. So I would just say it’s very important that if you’re a supervisor or an agency, and you have somebody working under you that you make sure that they are on track, and using EMDR appropriately, whether you know that they have a supervisor that they’re under, because if there is ever a complaint filed or somebody, we never want to harm anybody, if somebody is harmed in some way, you know, you want to make sure that the people that are doing EMDR therapy are really qualified.

Kim Howard 18:04
Right? Exactly. Crystal, how do you practice cultural humility as an EMDR therapist?

Crystal Hollenbeck 18:09
Well, first of all, I try to be mindful of my own bias and privilege. And I think that’s important. Of course, over the last couple of years, we’ve just all I know myself personally have grown and understanding so much more. But I try to pay attention to my own. I know that I have it, and being aware of it. But then second, I’m just very curious with my clients anyway, my therapeutic style is to be very curious. And I really believe every person and every couple is a unique individual. So I ask a lot of questions. And I really try not to assume if you tell me something about yourself culturally, or ethnicity, or any aspect to yourself, whether it’s sexually related about your sexuality, I really just try to get to know you. What does that mean to you because it can mean so many different things to different people. But that’s the way that I find that I practice it is just really showing up with that individual or that individual couple and asking them questions about themselves.

Kim Howard 19:12
Good advice. Thank you. Do you have a favorite free EMDR related resource that you would suggest?

Crystal Hollenbeck 19:17
Um, so when I think about resources around sexuality, there is iitap.com that’s iitap.com that’s the International Institute of Trauma and Addiction Professionals. If you’re looking for somebody who may have EMDR and address sex addiction or sexual compulsivity problems, APSATS, apsats.org is for partners who have been sexually betrayed. And there’s a lot of people out there that are EMDR therapist as well as specialize in that a sect a s e c t that is the national certification for sex therapist. You You can go to their website, and you’ll see also EMDR certified therapists who are certified sex therapist, and of course EMDRIA. EMDRIA has so much good information I send all of my clients there to read about it, when we’re talking about resources related to EMDR, I think one of the most important ones is called a safe place. And we do something in EMDR called resource development. And basically, that’s just, we are doing things with a client to help them be prepared to regulate their emotions, to engage in self care, because sometimes what we’re doing with EMDR can bring up a lot of negative aspects as we’re processing it. So there’s a resource called a safe place. And basically, what you would do is you would think of a place where you would be that you would be completely calm and safe, no disturbances, you don’t have memories of other people there, and you would close your eyes and just try to be in that place. And then go through your senses. Notice, while you’re sitting there, maybe at the beach, we would look at the blue water, you would feel the cold breeze, you would smell the salt air. So you would go through your senses. And then we asked you to just I call it a Google search, where you go through your body, and you just start at the top of your head and go to the bottom of your feet. And what you’re doing is you’re just staying in that safe place, smelling and looking at the blue water and you’re just calming down your body. And then you open your eyes and just take a look at two objects in the room when you open your eyes. But this is a great exercise that you can do that can help you when you feel dysregulated when you feel angry or anxious when you just don’t feel yourself, it’s called a safe place. And oftentimes, we will do bilateral stimulation with you while you’re doing this. But that is a very easy one that anybody can do. So again, you just close your eyes, imagine you’re there, go through your senses, calm down your body, and then open your eyes when you’re done. And we’d like you to pick a name to represent that safe place as well. So that you know you can go directly to that beam, close your eyes, say calm or whatever word you choose. So that is a very common EMDR resource development. We call it safe place.

Kim Howard 22:26
That’s wonderful. Thank you. Crystal, what would you like people outside of the EMDR community to know about EMDR and sex therapy?

Crystal Hollenbeck 22:34
Well, probably Kim, what we were just talking about a few minutes ago, it’s hard to come and seek help for something so personal. But if you’re struggling in a sexless relationship, or experiencing sexual dysfunction, maybe you’re a survivor of sexual abuse or struggling with your own sexual identity. EMDR is a great way to process those struggles and help you to get to a healthier place of healing. So take that risk, you’re you’re going to be seeking out professionals. So this is something we talk about a lot. We are trained in this. And so hopefully, once you take that first courageous step to seek help, you’ll feel safe when to come into therapy, and understand that there’s help available.

Kim Howard 23:17
Thank you. If you weren’t an EMDR therapist, what would you be?

Crystal Hollenbeck 23:22
Well, so when I thought about this, I’m like, well, actually, I already identify as many other things, right? I feel like I’m a hope giver. I’m a Christian. I’m a wife. I’m a mother. I’m a mother-in-law. I’m a gigi to my grandson, who I just am in love with. But I think in answering this question, what would I be if I wasn’t an EMDR therapist? I would not be the therapist that I am. I don’t think I would be as effective. I don’t think I would be as helpful. I don’t think I would be as dedicated to continuing to learn myself if I was an EMDR therapist. So I really think EMDR has just made me a more understanding therapist, especially because my specialty is our relationship sex therapy and trauma recovery. So I think without EMDR I don’t even really think I would be as competent to help clients I wouldn’t care as much about and understand as much about their traumatic experiences, I think.

Kim Howard 24:27
Is there anything else you’d like to add, Crystal?

Crystal Hollenbeck 24:29
No, you know, I don’t have anything else to add, just accept, seek out EMDR if you’re if you’re questioning it, you know, it’s a buzz. You know, Prince Harry has done EMDR some famous people have done it. So lately it’s really been kind of a buzz to talk about, go ahead and go to EMDRIA and read about it. I do have information on my website about it, read about it and check it out. It really can be used for we’re talking about sexual health today. But really it can be used for depression and Anxiety and grief and so many areas of your life. So I would just say, you know, if you’ve heard about EMDR, check it out more. If you’re a therapist thinking about becoming an EMDR therapist, I would say yes, do it. But I just love what you’re doing Kim with this, getting the word out with this podcast. So thank you.

Kim Howard 25:20
Yeah, thank you. We are doing our best to get information out there that accurate, you know, in a public way so that people have what they need to make decisions, whether that’s a career path for them as a therapist, or whether they’re a client coming to therapy. So that’s the goal with this podcast and anything else that we might produce. So thank you, crystal for being here today. We really appreciate it.

Crystal Hollenbeck 25:40
Oh, so nice to talk with you, Kim. Have a great day.

Kim Howard 25:43
This has been the Let’s Talk EMDR podcast with our guests Dr. Crystal Hollenbeck. Visit www.emdria.org. For more information about EMDR therapy. Our Find an EMDR Therapist Directory more than 14,000 therapists available. Our award-winning blog, Focal Point, offers information on EMDR and it’s an open resource. Thank you for listening.