Foster care and adoption: two self-sacrificing acts from adults to help children in need. However, this new dynamic is more complicated and traumatic than most imagine. Enter EMDR therapists like Rachel Harrison, LCPC, NCC, and her team. How can EMDR therapists help? Do the foster parents or adoptive parents need EMDR therapy too? Is it true that adopted infants don’t know anything but their new family? Learn more about how EMDR therapy can help adoptees, foster children, parents, and guardians.
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Musical soundtrack, Acoustic Motivation 11290, supplied royalty-free by Pixabay.
Produced by Kim Howard, CAE.
Kim Howard 00:08
Welcome to the Let’s Talk EMDR Podcast brought to you by the EMDR International Association for EMDRIA. I’m your host Kim Howard. In this episode we are talking with EMDR, certified therapist, approved consultant and trainer Rachel Harrison. Rachel is in Frederick, Maryland, where she specializes in providing EMDR therapy for those involved in the circle of adoption. Let’s get started. Today we are speaking with an EMDRIA certified therapist and approved consultant Rachel Harrison about working with adoption and foster care trauma. Rachel is the owner of trauma specialists of Maryland and Delaware and the trauma specialists Training Institute. Rachel believes that every therapist needs to know how to practice EMDR therapy because nothing works quite like it to treat trauma. We concur. Thank you, Rachel, for being here today. We are so happy that you said yes.
Rachel Harrison 00:58
Well, thank you, Kim. I am so happy to be here.
Kim Howard 01:01
Yeah. So tell us, Rachel a little bit about your journey to becoming an EMDR therapist.
Rachel Harrison 01:05
Yes. So my journey to becoming an EMDR therapist – I was working for a therapist for a long time and kind of really getting to some good work with clients. But I went to a training with Bessel van der Kolk. And at the time, I believe it was around 2006, he presented some research where he compared different types of training modalities at the time, and they all came out about 50 to 55% effective and the standout among the research was EMDR that came out as about 80% effective. And so hearing this research really started my interest into EMDR. It had been something I have thought about before maybe looked into a little bit, but that sort of lit the fire, if you will, for me to be trained as an EMDR therapist, and I also was able to do some of my own EMDR work as a client before training. So I think that was useful as well. Once I learned how to do EMDR with clients, I was amazed at the transition of being able to do such additional work to do work that maybe made more of an impact and, and I had recognized how much everything really seemed to come down to trauma in the therapy room even before being trained. And this gave me a tool to work with that trauma, I really think in a way that nothing else does. So EMDR has really completely changed the way that I do the work that I do. And in fact, I’ve created a practice Trauma Specialists of Maryland and Rrauma Specialists of Delaware, where we primarily utilize EMDR. And all of our therapists are trained in EMDR.
Kim Howard 02:48
What is your favorite part of working with EMDR therapy? You sort of touched on this earlier? But tell us again?
Rachel Harrison 02:53
Yeah, there are so many things that I love about EMDR I think if I have to had to pick a favorite. Aside from just the effectiveness, I think it is the fact that this is really such a client centered therapy. And what I mean by that is as as the therapist, we are simply guiding our clients. So we have a structure or a framework where we can help our clients process trauma, but we are really following their own brain and learning what they most need as part of the process. So instead of having this model where the therapist has to figure everything out and tell the client, what their recommendations might be, or try to word things or ask questions in a certain way, I feel like EMDR is set up to where it is a team work process. And the therapists role is to facilitate the process. And the client role is really to guide that process. And so we are learning from the client, very client focused very client centered and following the client in this whole process. And I think that just makes more sense to me for healing. I think it’s a little bit of a silly notion that a therapist can figure out a client and then somehow lead the client to all of their solutions. I really liked the process of working together, and the client holding all of the answers for their healing and the therapist simply facilitating them in finding that answer. So that’s one of my favorite things about EMDR therapy.
Kim Howard 04:27
So let’s get into the meat of why you’re here today. Can you talk about successes you’ve seen using EMDR therapy for foster care and adoption trauma?
Rachel Harrison 04:36
I have seen a lot of different successes in working with this population with EMDR. I think I I will kind of use an example that is not of course revealing any sort of confidential information but just kind of a conglomeration of several different clients that I have worked with. And I really tend to start with this population with the idea of a story. And so this particular client was able to come up with their story. So we kind of do this process where we write the story, right, the story of maybe how they came into the world and how they came to be with the family that they are with. And so this story I have found for this population really helps ground us in the work, but that also is where a lot of the trauma is held. So we use Joan Lovitz approach of a story. And so we write a story, we go through the process of desensitizing parts of the story that are traumatic. And we also sometimes find out pieces as we go through this story. And so this many, many cases, I’ve had a lot of success with this really starting a client in the right direction. But this one child in particular, I want to just say, was really able to transform a lot of relationships just by going through some EMDR. With the original story, it really helped this child understand the role of his adoptive mom, it helped him not so much take all of his anger and aggression out on the current mom that was sometimes related to a previous mom. And I think it also helped just in the new friendships, and being open to new relationships, and much more effective interactions. And so I’ve seen that type of story over and over again, with these clients, I think it’s really important to work from an attachment framework when working with these clients and making sure that we are doing everything to promote solid attachments with current safe attachment figures. So this story, though, we have to start, the thing that’s so tricky with this population is a lot of their trauma happens very early in life, or it happens related to early caregivers. And so until we kind of help their brains sort that out and process through that with EMDR, sometimes it can be difficult to deal with the other pieces that are happening. And to gain that understanding. I’ve also found that because this is pre verbal, a lot of times, that’s where this process of writing a story really helps giving us a grounding and a place to start. And something to start with, and desensitizing the parts of that that are traumatic.
Kim Howard 07:29
Children, whether they’re in the foster care system, or whether they’re, they’ve recently been adopted, or that is, I think, the most vulnerable population of clients that you could possibly work with, because they really don’t have any say, or control over their environment, and what’s happening to them. And there’s, they’re too young to understand anything that’s happening. I mean, I as an adult, don’t understand, you know, things that happen, sometimes are the choices that people make that are so bad and so negative that they impact a child like that in horrific fashion. So it’s great that you were able to find some success for him and, and his new adoptive family so that he knows who he is a little bit and what his story is. So thank you, that’s…
Rachel Harrison 08:13
Kim Howard 08:14
Good for people remember.
Rachel Harrison 08:15
So often, I feel like working in residential and the high incidence of adopted teens in residential settings. And I think the reason for that is there’s so much trauma inherent in this process of going through multiple caregivers. And it often looks like behavioral outbursts and things like that. And it’s hard to get to the root of that. And then we label these children as reactive attachment disorder. And that’s sort of like the, oh, we can’t treat them because they’re reactive attachment disorder. Yeah, so So I think there’s a high incidence of the adoptee population within residential treatment centers, and especially their get labeled as reactive attachment disorder, because the attachment issues gets so blown up at that point if we can’t treat that. And so I do think it’s important work to be able to do not just trauma work with this population, but also to do that attachment work. And, of course, the younger, the better that we can do this work. In fact, I really think it would be great if as part of the process of adoption, that attachment therapy was recommended or required, even by DSS Department of Social Services by foster care, even by private adoption. I think that would be ideal, but it’s it’s typically recommended but not necessarily required. And I think sometimes those families really don’t know what to do. And there’s a lot of shame involved with parents that are adopting children. They’re wanting to do this good thing, then their child is acting out and they have shame thinking it’s their fault about why this is happening. So it’s tough those those kids sometimes don’t get help early on And because no one knows what to do, I also get calls all the time for people that say, we’ve been to so many therapists and nobody knows what to do. Because if we only treat the behavior, we’re really missing the root of what’s going on here. And so we can do all the behavior plans we want, which is the typical thing that I see happen with some of these families, and just teaching the parents to set better boundaries. And then that that isn’t the issue, though.
Kim Howard 08:25
There’s a two-pronged issue happening there, you know. There’s this child, whether the child is 10, or 17, a child who feels like, ultimately, I would presume, there’s something wrong with me, because my original parents didn’t keep me, didn’t love me, didn’t take care of me. So they fostered me off on somebody else. And then there’s the adoptive parents, who feel this tremendous guilt, because they can’t help this, this child that they want to love and provide for, they can’t fix it. You know, as a parent of my own children, you know, I can’t tell you how many times I second guess, my parenting decisions. And so I cannot imagine adding in another layer of trauma and bringing in another child from the outside who’s already been traumatized, and fill in the blank with whatever is happening with that child, and then may try to parent that, that child appropriately so that that child feels secured and loved, and, and safe. And so, yeah, I would imagine there’s a lot happening in that dynamic. And so you’re right, I think EMDR therapy should be required. I’m not I’m not in charge of the world. But if I were, I would make that and, you know, I would make that happen. So.
Rachel Harrison 11:42
You know, I did some training in Colorado. I used to do training for pre adoptive parents. So in Colorado, they require that those parents get some training. And I would say things like, talk about the level of trauma and talk about the loss and all of that. And sometimes I would get feedback from the parents in the class that said, ‘Wow, this is so depressing.’ I, I was like, you know, it was that fine line of like, ‘Yes, but but you need to, you need to go in to this with your eyes wide open, because it’s not you, you need to understand that when a child has lost a birth family, whatever that looks like, and sometimes multiple caregivers along the way, there’s going to be trauma, there’s no way that there’s not and there are going to be attachment issues, there are no way to avoid them.’ So it’s better to know that and not think, ‘Oh, I’m just not a good enough parent, or love isn’t enough, or all of those things that parents can feel.’ Right. Right.
Kim Howard 12:45
So you touched on this a little bit, let’s go into the official question. Are there any myths that you would like to bust about EMDR therapy with this population? If you can’t, if you have too many to list, give us your top three.
Rachel Harrison 12:58
There are so many, you saw my pause there, I’m like,’ Okay, where do I go here?’ You know, what I’m gonna, I’m gonna start with one that I hear a lot, and both from therapists and non therapists, which is that if if a child was adopted at birth, that there is no trauma, or that there’s less trauma. And interestingly, I have discovered in my work that this is really not true at all. I am wholly convinced of pre-verbal in utero trauma, and that it exists and that a baby when they have been in the womb with a birth mom, and then they are adopted, even at birth, and that mom figure is different. Everything is different than they know, the voice is different. The smell is different than body movement is different. Everything is different, and they experienced it as a loss. And I think in some ways, it’s even harder to recover from because it’s not a verbal loss, there’s nothing that they can sort of later in life say something is wrong, because because they get told this adoptive story of like, it was so great. I was there when you were born, and then we were connected and sort of allowing space to say, No, that’s a loss that is still 100% a loss for that child and a trauma that we need to treat both from the attachment perspective and the EMDR perspective. So that’s a big one that I hear a lot.
Kim Howard 14:37
That’s a good answer. And it’s a good reminder. You know, we have several sessions in the past few years at our annual conference, that talk about the studies that they have done about PTSD, in the womb or of pregnant women who have experienced some sort of trauma and they follow those children and how they might the children might be more anxious So even though the mother did everything, right, from a physical health perspective, but they were, they were in an emotional, negative state when they were pregnant, how that impacts the child years later. Yeah, so that kind of thing does happen. And I, I think I experienced that with my own children. But you know, like, when I was pregnant with my son, we were not moving. And we were in a home and, you know, Yatta, yatta, and everything was fine. And then we have my daughter of the year I was pregnant with my daughter, we had this big move from one state to another. And there was a lot of stress, even though you don’t think it’s a lot of stress, you know, you’re just moving from one house to another, it’s just, you know, an hour away, it’s not a big deal. But she is a little bit more anxious than he is. And she’s a little bit more of a worrier. And I think back then I wonder if me being pregnant, and that whole process of that big move had anything to do with her now. And so that’s a small, small, small, sure, apple, but if you multiply that by ‘Oh, we were refugees, or oh, you know, our somebody invaded our country, or, you know, something traumatic happened to us, and we had to leave.’ And so um, multiply that and that makes it much worse for the mom and the baby in utero.
Rachel Harrison 16:18
Yeah. And can I give you one more myth? Because I think that’s important. Yeah, sorry. I feel like I also want to say that needing control and we see that a lot in this population, like so often parents come in, and the complaint is, Susie or Johnny always has to be in control, if it’s not their way, they’re throwing a fit. And so a lot of focus gets on, honed in on this controlling behavior. And I just want to say that, that controlling behavior is a trauma response. And I know I’m probably preaching to the choir here with EMDR therapists, we know that, but it’s not a behavioral problem. It’s a trauma response. And, and in our therapy rooms, I find the need for control with this population is really high. So we really, as we’re developing rapport and beginning to work with this child have to follow the child and we have to allow them to take as much control as we reasonably can, in the therapy office, for them to feel safe enough to build that trust, and to be able to do the trauma work. So that report stage is really big. But I just think that idea, you know the word manipulative, you’ll hear she is so manipulative, or whatever. And I always say, of course, we all are, we’re all trying to manipulate in whatever way we can to be safe and to get our needs met. And that’s normal. And that’s okay. And it’s not necessarily something that we need to demonize or punish.
Kim Howard 17:48
That’s a good reminder. And the audience members are not always just EMDR therapists, you know, there could be anybody out there who’s wants to know more about EMDR therapy, or is in do therapy and as learning as they go. And so that’s, that’s good reminders for everybody.
Rachel Harrison 18:05
Kim Howard 18:06
Yeah, absolutely. Are there any specific complexities or difficulties with using EMDR therapy with children in foster care or or who have been adopted?
Rachel Harrison 18:16
Yeah, there are a lot. And I think I already mentioned the piece about foster care in that I just don’t do attachment work, because we don’t have a permanency plan. And I feel like that can do more harm than good. But certainly we can do trauma work if the client can be safe enough. And I think this dynamic of needing control and developing safe enough therapy space for these kiddos is often where we do a lot of the work. You know, I also see kids come in and the story goes like this, we adopted this child from another country maybe and they came over and they were such a good baby or such a good child. And they did great in school, and they did all the things and then the teenage years hits. And now we have all these behaviors. And we don’t know where this is coming from. This has always been our docile child. And I think keeping in mind that oftentimes what happens is that early stage of adoption, where a child is getting to know their their new family, there can be a lot of freeze responses, there can be a lot of fawning responses, and both of those are really trauma reactions and trauma responses. And so it’s just important to know that just because we don’t know what’s happening doesn’t mean we understand that that’s not going to blow up or be something bubbling up underneath the surface. I think it always emerges and sometimes for adoptees that doesn’t emerge until adulthood and they have kind of some kind of break or issue or kind of all comes flooding back to them and then we have to deal with it then but it the complexity is that this is such an adjustment process. And it’s really hard to feel safe. I think for people that live with their birth families, and that’s just the trajectory of their lives, it’s difficult to understand how unsettling it is, and really just moving the rug out from under you, when your family changes, your family changes, families are so different. I remember I had this adult client who was in foster care for much of her childhood, and she, she would just tell me, it was so different in every house, like the rules change all the time, and the way that they do things is so different. And it’s really hard to learn a whole new family culture. Frequently, if you’re moved from foster home to foster home to foster home, you never really feel safe enough. And you don’t have the opportunity, I think, to do some of the identity work and figuring out who you are, if your time is spent on just learning how to be okay, in whatever environment that you’re in. So I think that some of the complexity is we really have to sort through the dissociation, the trauma responses that come up and be able to get to a safe enough place to do the trauma work.
Kim Howard 21:19
Right. And I suspect that children who are in foster care are also who are old enough to know that they’re in foster care are also very guarded with where they’re at. And it’s sort of like when you go to someone’s home, you don’t know you act fair, polite, you say, Please, and thank you. And yes, ma’am. And no, ma’am. And, you know, then you go home to your family, and you kind of let it all hang out on the floor. And you’re like, ‘What do you want mom?’ You know, you’re screaming from the top of the stairs. But you wouldn’t do that and someone else’s home. And so I suspect that that tendency to have to always feel like they’re on guard, always overactive, is very, very traumatic for them. And doesn’t that it never provides a sense of security, either. And so I would suspect that would show up later on that and make things very difficult for them.
Rachel Harrison 22:06
And ironically, going off what you’re saying, when we start to see the socks on the floor, to use that metaphor, and whatever behavior that is, that’s actually a sign that the child is able to let their guard down a little bit, right. And yeah, and be more comfortable. And so many adoptive families go, oh, know, what’s happening, something’s wrong, but not so much. Sometimes it’s just like, oh, they can find but then what happens is, if that’s punishment, if the socks on the floor becomes a big issue, then they learn, oh, we don’t have any place that we can let down. We have to be that perfect rule follower all the time.
Kim Howard 22:47
And a very smart daycare provider who owned a daycare center, tell me that about my children, when they were younger, we were talking and she said, ‘You know, when they act proper, when they’re at daycare, like they’re supposed to, and they let it go, when they get home, that’s very good for you. Because that means that they’re so comfortable in their own home, that they know they can let it all hang out. And that nothing negative is going to happen to them there that you love them, despite the fact that their socks are on the floor. And they’re they’re having a meltdown, and they’re letting it all hang out. You know. And so she said, that’s, that’s really good.’ And so I tried to keep that in mind as my children will come home from daycare, and then later from school as children, and they let it all hang out. Because apparently they were comfortable enough to do that. So that’s, that’s good for anybody who’s parenting or thinking about parenting or becoming a guardian to keep that in mind.
Rachel Harrison 23:38
Kim Howard 23:39
Good advice, thank you. Speaking of that, that transitions us to our next question, which is, what about the parents or guardians evolve? How is your approach to treating the adults different than treating the children?
Rachel Harrison 23:49
Yeah, I love this question. Because this is part of the complexity is that we really have to work with the entire family system. So what I tend to do is work with parents first, like when I do an intake session, there might be multiple sessions, where I’m just talking to the parents, because what we have to really discover is Where are the parents in their own attachment journey. And so the truth about adoption is that not only is the child on an attachment journey to attach to their new parents, the parents are also on an attachment journey to attach to their new child. And it doesn’t always happen in this instantaneous homework s kind of way. And there can be a lot of shame with that. I’ve worked with a lot of adoptive families that will say, I love this child, and I just don’t feel that connection. You know, they know that there’s just something missing and let’s be honest, we are putting people together in sort of a non traditional type of a way right? Suddenly it’s like one day, you’re you might go to another Our country and meet your, your child. How, how interesting is that? I mean, I think in so many ways, it’s beautiful. And I think we also have to understand that you’re meeting a stranger, you’re both meeting strangers, and parents are bringing in all of their own attachment experiences to the mix as well. So I find that working with that first and getting at least an assessment of that is where I start. And not that there’s any shame, right? We all have, Nobody chooses their parents. Right, right. And so whatever attachment stuff we have in our lives, is really based on that relationship. And we didn’t have control, and we didn’t choose it. So if we can try to let go of some of that shame, and just recognize that this is something we can work on at any stage of life, that’s the beauty of attachment, we can figure out, oh, I struggle with this a little bit, and I can work on it. And so what I typically do is kind of get that picture of where are the parents first, before I even meet the child. And my favorite thing, and my most success, I’ve got to tell you has been referring the parents to their own EMDR therapy, while also doing this attachment and trauma work with the child that just yields the best results. And I know it’s hard for parents, it’s difficult work to do. But that tends to be the best course of treatment. And sometimes we’re just focusing on treating their trauma with this child in EMDR, it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to go open up all your traumas. But if there has been a lot of traumatic incidents with a specific child and a parent, let’s say, both the child and the parent are holding pieces of this trauma, that’s going to be difficult for them to move ahead. So we have this beautiful tool with EMDR, where we can clear some of that out and kind of start fresh for both the parent and the child. But I like for that work that independent EMDR to be done with a different provider than myself. So my focus can really be helping the child clear their trauma, and then figuring out how to make that attachment work with the parents. So I do spend a lot of time on the front end getting a sense of where parents are. And in my office, I’m also very clear, parents are going to be like really involved. So we’re going to be down on the floor doing play therapy, and I need them to just do that with me, we’re also going to be following the child in my office, which means they might put their feet on my couch. And I’m not wanting anything to be corrected for that this is a therapy space where we’re not going to worry about those kind of rules. So that’s a lot of the kind of setup work that I do with parents. And I think that’s hard. I think some therapists struggle with how to how do we work with parents and the child. And so there’s just sort of a process of learning that but the number one thing I say to therapists is that these parents are the best person for that child therapy is going to come and go, right, you’re just this little piece in their life. But if we can help them attach to their parents, that’s going to be a law, lifelong benefit that really can help them as they as they go forward.
Kim Howard 28:28
Good advice. Thank you.
Rachel Harrison 28:30
You bet. I have a lot of strong feelings here.
Kim Howard 28:33
No, that’s great they are coming through we like it. How do you practice cultural humility as an EMDR therapist?
Rachel Harrison 28:40
I like that question too. And I think for me, boy, it boils down to learning. You know, I will say in in this vein in the adoption community, there are lots of transracial adoptions, there are lots of pieces if we want to talk about culture, just in general, I touched on the fact that a birth families culture is different than the adoptive families culture. So we have race, we have culture, we have religion, we have all kinds of pieces here. And I think it’s important for me to do my own learning so so no client is ever burdened to be teaching me about things like micro aggression, or racism or any of those things. So I do my own work. And I have fortunately some fabulous colleagues that helped me if I if I bump into something that I can consult and say, How much is this a piece of what’s going on? But I think recognizing that every person experiences race and culture differently, too. So really understanding how that’s coming across for each client and integrating that into into how we’re moving forward. But there’s a lot of that cultural change that we talked about between foster families or between adopted and birth families that really we do have to just explicitly say, let’s understand this how, how does this family feel about religion? How does this family feel about holidays? How does this family feel like what are you supposed to do when you come home from school, even that is different from family to family. So really trying to learn from the child what their experiences was, was like in their first family, if that’s the situation, and then presently, as well. And then race is an interesting thing, when you have I see most often Caucasian parents that might adopt a biracial child or a child of another race or a child from another country. And so learning about what that means to the child first, like, what does it mean to you to be Asian? Or whatever their nationality? And it’s different every time? And if, if I make assumptions, then I’m missing the boat. So just really checking in and learning first.
Kim Howard 31:04
Good answer. Thank you.
Rachel Harrison 31:05
Kim Howard 31:06
Do you have a favorite free EMDR related resource that you would like to suggest for the public or other EMDR Therapists?
Rachel Harrison 31:14
You know, when I read this question, I was thinking in terms of EMDR therapist, so I will say I have a very interesting answer to this question. But I think it can relate maybe to non EMDR folks, too, but for me, it’s great. And so grapes are the thing for me AIP. And adaptive information processing is the theory that EMDR was based upon. And when we think about memory clusters and memory networks, I teach it in my basic trainings, I teach the picture of grapes, because that’s kind of how it works for me, and I use this with kids frequently to, to explain what EMDR is. So if we can just draw a cluster of grapes and understanding that every time we have an experience that feels similar, either to our bodies, or to our emotions, or to our brains, that it clusters together, just like a cluster of grapes and an EMDR, what we’re looking at is taking those trauma cluster of grapes and clearing that out. So we don’t have that emotional reaction or that body reaction to what’s happening. And so for me, that’s been one of the easiest ways, and I have lots of kids that will reference that actually have lots of adults, or even consultees that will reference that, oh, it’s the grapes. They’re sort of that it’s just a little like, cheat sheet or metaphor, if you will, for how EMDR works that I think is accessible that we can hopefully all understand.
Kim Howard 32:45
Yeah, it’s a good it’s a good visual. I mean, it makes very good sense to me. So yeah.
Rachel Harrison 32:50
Yeah, you bet. I give the EMDRIA website, by the way, all the time, though, for people who want to learn more about EMDR. That’s always my go to, here’s the EMDRIA website, I may send it an email to a family, it’s a great place to learn about EMDR. And what it what it looks like.
Kim Howard 33:06
Oh you, we appreciate that. We do our website, we serve several audiences. So the general public is definitely one of them. So what would you like people outside of the EMDR community to know about foster care and adoption?
Rachel Harrison 33:20
Yeah, I think just that it is a loss, it is a loss for everybody. So I think loss is something everybody can understand. And I think a lot of people don’t think about adoption or foster care as a loss. But it never happens unless there’s a loss first, right? So it’s a loss of a first family, it’s a loss of what they know is familiar, it’s just loss. And so I think sometimes when we can say, okay, I can understand the loss. Sometimes I’ve said to people, if had if you’ve lost a parent or a loved one, and imagine what that was like, and if you were an adult, when that happened, you had all of the great brain capabilities that adults have to try to cope and hopefully support system, all of that. And we know how traumatic that can be in and of itself. But when that happens early on, say in the first zero to five years of life, not only do we have that same level of loss and trauma, but we also have a younger brain that doesn’t have all of the tools to process through and understand that. So for me, that’s a way to understand. Really, what a big deal.
Kim Howard 34:36
This is a good explanation.
Rachel Harrison 34:38
Kim Howard 34:38
If you weren’t an EMDR therapist what
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Copyright © 2023 EMDR International Association
Howard, K. (Host). (2023, January 15). EMDR Therapy with Foster Care and Adoption Trauma with Rachel Harrison, LCPC, NCC (Season 2, No. 2) [Audio podcast episode]. In Let’s Talk EMDR podcast. EMDR International Association. https://www.emdria.org/letstalkemdrpodcast/
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